Ratings Agencies and Predatory Lending vs. Irresponsible Borrowing

PBS NewsHour | Nov. 18, 2010 | PBS:

PAUL SOLMAN: You frame this book as a look back at the whole financial crisis, so I thought I would frame this interview as a: Who is the biggest culprit?

JOE NOCERA: I certainly would put the rating agencies right at the top of my list of bad guys, or my list of devils.

A place like Moody's took a culture that had a reputation for some integrity, and completely corrupted it in a drive for market share and profits.

PAUL SOLMAN: So, biggest culprit, ratings agencies; you agree?

BETHANY MCLEAN: I do agree. If they hadn't taken subprime mortgages and rated enormous quantities of them AAA, meaning they gave those bonds the same credit rating as the U.S. government debt has, this -- this whole thing couldn't have happened, because debt that is rated AAA is precisely the debt that is snapped up by the largest quantity of buyers all around the world, buyers who are not capable of doing the detailed work to analyze these bonds by themselves....

BETHANY MCLEAN: ...But one of the really interesting things, if you go back to the 1990s to the birth of subprime lending, it was never about homeownership.

PAUL SOLMAN: What do you mean it wasn't about homeownership?

BETHANY MCLEAN: It was never about homeownership, because subprime lending grew out of cash-out refinancings, meaning the ability of somebody to go to a bank, refinance their mortgage, and take cash out of their house in order to live on that cash.

And that enabled consumer spending through the 1990s and through the early part of -- of this decade. Most of the business of the major subprime lenders, from Countrywide, to Ameriquest, to New Century, was cash-out refinancing. It wasn't the first-time purchase of homes by homebuyers. And this was celebrated by Republicans, as well as Democrats.

JOE NOCERA: Homeownership was a giant fig leaf, particularly for the rise of subprime.

I was stunned, in the reporting of this book, how much subprime was about predatory lending. And it was way more than I thought. And then, when you find that a company like New Century, which really, you know, 85 percent of its business is refinancing, 15 percent of its business is homeownership, that's astounding.

PAUL SOLMAN: What does predatory lending mean in this situation?

JOE NOCERA: Taking advantage of unsophisticated people to put them into loans that -- knowing, absolutely knowing, that they can never pay them back, often lying about what the interest rate hike is going to be, prodding them to lie themselves about their income, about their true financial condition.

BETHANY MCLEAN: I -- I started this book with a bias toward personal responsibility, and, if consumers got in over their head on their mortgage, that was their fault.

And one of the big discoveries to me in the course of reporting the book is the extent to which these loans were sold; they weren't bought. And one of the most telling moments were these internal documents from Washington Mutual, one of the big subprime lenders, around 2003 talking about how to get consumers who really wanted safe 30-year fixed-rate mortgages to take out these dangerous option ARMs instead.

PAUL SOLMAN: ARMs meaning adjustable rate.

BETHANY MCLEAN: Adjustable rate mortgages -- how to sell those to people, and how to confront a consumer who said, but it doesn't feel right to me.I want to pay back my mortgage every month. This is what my parents did.

How do you get these people to take out a risky mortgage instead? You told them that home prices could only go up. And the reason Washington Mutual wanted to sell these option ARMs, instead of the 30-year fixed rate mortgages, is that Washington Mutual could turn around and sell these to Wall Street for a lot more money than it could sell the old 30-year fixed-rate loans.